LOL

Anon.

Necessities——wanting stuff for free and not earning it, An education is not like food, You can live without it.

This all reminds me of the 1994 Flintstones movie where the developer was making tons of tiny houses and Fred asks 'No offense, but who's going to want to live in one of those'.  I.e. Sanctions on Iran and outright warning the financial sectors of international banking that it is grave to get involved  v. Solar Energy grants.  Banks have been taking our deposits for free and not earning it.  These legal personalities have Supra-state funds.  Stock and Share-capital are not supposed to have any of the Labor-strengths powers.  

Many would say they feel that education is necessary.  Though I can work as a Medical Transcriptionist without any certification, I will do intern work and go to school for that.  Then I will study abroad for my actual Degree, which will be for Chemistry.  There's a matter of knowing the true nature of things. The high-school students are hearing that now from the college kids instead of being prepared from the curriculum.  Schools are all charters of incorporation.  

There is abundance and there is known self-sustaining energy.   

http://www.obamastudentloanfor.....eness.com/

http://collegesavings.about.co.....2eac20618a

Also, I have been rethinking potential approach with students. My parents were not there for me to help me think through the process of education. However, I think I would have benefitted from a class on what to consider regarding the financials of going to school and paying off loans. I had money saved for school since working as a teen, but it should be as carefully taken into consideration as loan money as far as the cost/benefit analysis. Just because my parents were not there encouraging, helping, comprehending or supporting does not mean I should be disadvantaged unnecessarily. To assume parents will be there….no, sadly, this does not consistantly happen. That is partially why so many people do not pursue a higher education.

It is certainly not good to force a child to go to school, nor is it good not to help him/her develop a vision in how pursue the direction that clicks best for the child. I hate to put the responsibilities on colleges, but I think it is the ethical thing to do given my own experience…to educate potential students on the financial and future job potential first.

Regarding banks taking on risk, no need for excessive risks, only reasonable ones, no? If banks are guaranteed payment, then they may as well take unlimited risks? The only problem is that approach encourages a lack of financial responsibility for the student, which provides them positive incentive to not ever be financially responsible, and does the same for financial institutions. It seems to me that we want students, future leaders of this country, that are not readily taking on loans they don't care about whether or not they pay. Same to be said about financial institutions.

Bob, thank you so much for going through that.  Can you point me to a more detailed description of how decisions are made?  For example, I don't know what "GA" stands for, or what it really entails.

 

GA= General Assembly

General Assembly is the meeting where proposals, announcements, opinions and report backs by workgroups are done.  During this time, people gather around and show approval, indifference or disapproval of an opinion, announcement, proposal or report back.  The proposal is where ideas for events, protest or support of various items takes place.  Here is where the decisions for the movement general come from as a group.  When a proposal is presented to the work, it is voted on by the those in attendance.  Here you can approve, show indifference or disapproval of a proposal and even block the proposal.  Blocking a proposal opens up the proposal to discussion between the person proposing the idea and the person who is blocking it.  When somebody blocks a proposal and it is only during a proposal where a block is used.  Because, a block says you disagree with the proposal based on ethical/moral, safety issues or ...the other item slips my mind at the moment, I might remember before I am finished with this post or not...A block also says that if this proposal passes, the person will leave the movement.  Blocks are pretty serious.  And treated as such.  So, the two try to come to a common ground where everybody agrees with the proposal so there is a consensus.  If I remember correctly, 90 percent is needed to accept the proposal.  If the two opposing sides can not find a common ground.  The proposal is "tabled" and there is an attempt to rework the proposal to get consensus.  To my knowledge, that is how decisions come to be made by the group.  " It has to be presented to the General Assembly and get consensus. "

As for the tuition issue, I think the issue from the other side is that they are tired of bailouts of any kind, corporate or personal.  From what I gather, there is frustration that student debt was acquired many times for degrees that had very poor job opportunities to begin with.  And even beyond that, while some of the larger economic concerns of OWS are understandable, the student debt issue seems to be more about personal financial choices rather than part of the broken system as a whole.  To put it another way, it seems that higher education institutions made an implied promise that you could go through their system, and then get a better paying job on the way out.  As job growth has been stifled, this promise is becoming a shaky proposition. 

Personally, I think most people should be analyzing undergraduate schooling like people often do when getting a Masters.  If I ever considered going back to school, I would assess how much additional I could earn (if anything), and then compare that to the cost of the education.  It's also similar to deciding to get a small business loan.  It's part risk that I will grow my business and I will be better off than working for someone else.  But if my business didn't pan out, I wouldn't demand that my loan be forgiven.  It was a financial decision that just didn't work the way I wanted it to.

 

In my situation, I was not really interested in going to college or university.  But I was pressured by my parents to go to school and get a profession like become a doctor or lawyer.  Something like that, I initially got a full scholarship for athletics and headed to school on a full scholarship.  While at school, I had decided on doing a few things from advertisement to becoming a professor.   But my problem was: I hated school.  I didn't want to graduate and go work at a corporation.  Also, I began to realize that it was not so much what you learned but WHO you knew from school.  "Networking" became the big thing at school for many people.  There were many girls there 'just looking for a husband' at school.  And things of the sort.  It was not long before that this whole " got to school, study hard, graduate, get a job" was just a means to get into the rat race and sell your soul for a dollar.  Personally, I think tertiary schooling is overrated, if you want to 'make a lot of money'.  If you look at a lot of the 'successful' people in America, many of them dropped out of school at various ages and set out into the world to make it on their own.  

In reference to the schooling fees.  Well, from what I understand, the easy loans from government has also given the universities reason to increase their fees.  http://financemymoney.com/stud.....education/

The sad thing is: students are led to believe that there will be jobs waiting for them when they graduate, so they don't need to worry about their mounting debt.  They will are lead to believe if they go find a job, especially with degree in hand, they will eventually make enough to pay off their debt in a few years.  This isn't quite true for many graduating students.  Hence, the rising debt of student loans in the hundred of billions.  Even worse, there are jobs who won't hire you if you have outstanding debt.  Here in Houston, there are reports that teaching jobs won't hire you if you still owe your school money.  But that is in extreme cases, from what I understand.  Forgiving of school debt, will do a lot for many students out there drowning in debt to get jobs that won't hire applicants because of outstanding loans. 

Also, do middle school or high school teach students about student debt?  How do the secondary schooling prepare potential tertiary students for the debt and the management of their money for college?  I am aware that parents should be quite influential in this education.  But in all honesty, parents should be quite influential in all of education to the point that children aren't spending 8 hours in a building being misled about the real world.  My two cents...

Anon.

Necessities------wanting stuff for free and not earning it, An education is not like food, You can live without it.

The form of State results from the essential character of the people, resulting from necessities which are so elementary and powerful that every individual will realize them.  

When you want something weather it be a car,apartment,boat or even an education. It all cost money. Paying for thing is how this counry works. It is'nt that hard but it does require a plan. My daughter will finish her Master in finance this year at Trinity this year, She is doing it the way is suppost to be done, Paying her own way, She works every small job she can find. Lives off campus,just bought a very cheep new car, She did all the inturnships and will start at PWC next fall. She has a budget and lives within it. This is not hard to do but most people want it easy, You learn nothing from easy. Yes I helped with collage but she still will have student loans to pay. I think its around 60K. Still a plan has to be made for that, She will move back home for a year and work. Nothing to pay to stay as long as she pays off the loan while she is here. Again she will have no money but can get it done. If everyone got a free education the market would be so floooded that there would be lower pay for all. You know im right. There wil always be the haves and have nots. It has to be that way or we all will have nothing. She should have been a have not. But we broke that scycle and will education all  of our kids if it kills me. If someone can explain to me how everyone being on the same level of evucation would help and hold pay . I would like to hear it. You cant because it makes no sence. I am so sick of being told that everyone deserves this or should have that, What we do have a right is to get up every morning and go do whatever job we can find. Get paid and do it again. Don't tell me that there are no jobs because I was one of the unemployed. I did every turd job i could find to pay our bills.  OH BTW I am very proud of my little girl if you did.t notice.

The class would be intended to help them grasp reality. Most young people can't grasp what they have not experienced for themselves…..finances, not living forever, etc

Included in a class could be not just learning about growth in the field, but how they are going to pay for school, presenting a plan not a whole lot different than presenting a business plan to a banker. That would be part of their class to apply for a loan. However, it is not an eager biased banker they present their findings to, basically an accountant that already has access to realistic numbers. However, eventually a banker gets involved. Each person helping the future student must also be accountable, both hold equal responsibility to assure what is being presented is realistic even though they may not be able to guarantee the character of the person taking out the loan. But they can still get references for the student regarding their integrity.

Perhaps these loan officers should be taking out insurance if they are not going to do their job responsibly, such as the mortgage loan people. I would not be surprised if the same approach was utilized by the school loan officers. You simply don't make loans that you realize are going to fail, then sell them to another institution. It is inethical. People with pipe dreams can be easily sold; we should not be protecting the sales person. No one is without guilt in all these loan scandals, the loaners or the loanees.

I would say the system implies if someone is given a loan, that they should be able to afford it. I don't know how many times I was called by the university I attended with requests for donations, and I would refrain from saying to them, "Are you kidding, I don't even have a job and if I did, I would not be making enough to give anything more to you. Maybe you should be sending me money." And my tuition was very reasonable compared to some institutions that should be protested. lol. People that young are naive about the cost of living, let alone retirement….even the ones that can balance a checkbook. My area of expertise did not even keep up with inflation….same starting wage today as it was way back when. Fortunately I was able to pay off my loans quickly due to my overall situation…willingness to work hard plus good luck…. after getting out of school.

So, here is an idea: mandatory class prior to loan application for the basics of cost of living. Call it pre-college. lol.

As I mentioned here, I am trying to bring together OWS and the Tea Party, and focus on the things the groups have in common rather the things that sets them apart.  As part of this plan, I think it is important to remove some of the myths and misconceptions regarding OWS.  Can you all shed some light on these for me?

1. Does OWS also protest corrupt politicians like they do corporations?
2. Is OWS seeking free tuition or forgiveness of student loan debt?
3. What other misconceptions are there about OWS?  What other inaccuracies have been spread about OWS but are not true?

To the best of my knowledge,

1. Occupy Wallstreet would support the enforcement of the Constitution.
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/po.....ments.html
Repeal Statutes that infringe upon the States jurisdiction.
They want jobs for all right away.  

2. Yes, forgive student loan debt. The foreclosed homes or value thereof must return to the people it was taken from.

3. Occupy's cities protesters are excited about all the communication we have with each other across great distances!

Thanks for responding.  My real concern about that line of thought is it potentially absolves everybody from understanding the consequences of the things they do.  For example, let's say I buy a subscription to XYZ (doesn't matter what it is) that costs a couple hundred dollars a month.  And if I'm really bad at budgeting, I may not realize that I don't have that money to spare.  Next thing you know, I can't pay my bills and something has to give.  Should somebody remove my obligation because I didn't have the financial understanding?  Something just doesn't seem right about that to me.

If this system was fraudulently promising something and not delivering, then something needs to be done, but at that point I would say the college itself should be liable, not the taxpayers.

Thoughts?

You do have good points and going back to school is something I have considered. However, please consider my perspective:

Often time students [and people in general] are very naive about what it cost to live, what they are paying for school, and what they will get out of it in the end. Many are not as financially/business minded as you, unfortunately, or you would have a lot more competition. It is simply not the way many people's brains work nor are they necessarily getting the mentoring from parents you may believe them to receive on having a realistic approach. After all, their parents may not be financially wise, thus they start of a vicious cycle with the financial messages passed along generations. And of course, it is all avoidable, if school counselors provided them with sufficient information and guidance to think it out or if there was an inexpensive program they could attend to help them think through this process, not very unlike a defensive driving course that has minimum requirements and is standardized.

Yes, I know....it seems a bit silly for the financially astute. But well worth the small investment in our children's  and nation's future. They can also take that same knowledge and learn how to apply it to other financial areas in their lives as well.

Or we could just mandate free education, and that portion of the lacking financial responsibility would be resolved....we would just have to figure out how to pay for it.

~k

As for the tuition issue, I think the issue from the other side is that they are tired of bailouts of any kind, corporate or personal.  From what I gather, there is frustration that student debt was acquired many times for degrees that had very poor job opportunities to begin with.  And even beyond that, while some of the larger economic concerns of OWS are understandable, the student debt issue seems to be more about personal financial choices rather than part of the broken system as a whole.  To put it another way, it seems that higher education institutions made an implied promise that you could go through their system, and then get a better paying job on the way out.  As job growth has been stifled, this promise is becoming a shaky proposition. 

Personally, I think most people should be analyzing undergraduate schooling like people often do when getting a Masters.  If I ever considered going back to school, I would assess how much additional I could earn (if anything), and then compare that to the cost of the education.  It's also similar to deciding to get a small business loan.  It's part risk that I will grow my business and I will be better off than working for someone else.  But if my business didn't pan out, I wouldn't demand that my loan be forgiven.  It was a financial decision that just didn't work the way I wanted it to.

Anyway, just my 2 cents!  (I'm really enjoying this conversation, so if you have another point of view, please share so I can understand better!)

I don't think OH has made a formal announcement or made a formal vote about whether corrupt politicians should be allowed to carry on with business as usual.  But I feel confident in saying, that many of us don't condone corrupt politicians, which I think is part of the general problem with the government-corporate relationship.   In reference to free tuition, I think that is bit more nebulous.  The people who 'support' OH might feel different about 'free tuition'.  It isn't something that I believe has been discussed and accepted as a general principle of OWS.  See, one of the biggest issues with OH/OWS is that we are doing things differently.  There is nobody decided what is what.  It is a collective decision.  So, when people on the outside looking in cry for demands or a message.  They don't truly understand the means by which WE come to those things.  Because these issues must first be brought up at the GA, actually or preferably in a workgroup.  Discussed, ironed out and then brought to the GA to be proposed.  Then it goes through another process of being accepted by consensus. See, many people don't understand how OH/OWS are coming to their decisions and not familiar with means by which we come up with even the simplest of decisions.  On top of that, we have a multimillion dollar anti Occupation Wall Street propaganda machine filling the heads of people on the outside looking in with so much misinformation.  

Personally, I think education should be valued more and given freely.  It isn't like the US doesn't already provide 'free tuition' and foregiveness for loans already in other aspects.  If I was to have my way, education would be reformed completely.  First off: education would be free all the way through.  Second, there would be higher teacher-student ratio.  Third, an educational system that actually empowers and encourages students to develop their inherent talent and abilities to apply to an evolving sustainability society with great challenges.   A good educational system, imo, would solve many of the problems we have today.  

1. Does OWS also protest corrupt politicians like they do corporations?
2. Is OWS seeking free tuition or forgiveness of student loan debt?
3. What other misconceptions are there about OWS?  What other inaccuracies have been spread about OWS but are not true?