get it?

They are raising money, and want to pay themselves as leaders... a salary.. legally.

That is why, but there are many ways to file and form a group and not file with the IRS... a religious order for example is free...  a politcal action committee... etc.

The truth is.. there IS NO REASON TO FORM A 501(C)3... because as an occupy group who is receiving donations, IS  already  GOING TO BE TAX EXEMPT....   AS A POLITICAL FUNDRAISING PAC...  it is tax exempt... and as a 501(c)3..  is tax exempt....  

The issue is... forming a 501(c)3...  is basically asking for permission.

AND... IT GIVES THE GOVERNMENT THE POWER TO TAKE AWAY THE EXEMPTION.

THE ONLY REASON ANY OF THIS MATTERS... is sales.... sales... sales... sales...

To sell goods...  would be for profit, unless... as a non-profit....  and so... sales and fundraising can make it very lucrative for those who are running this show.

That is why they want a 501(c)3...  because the leaders of a 501(c)3...  CHOOSE THEIR OWN SALARY!!!!!

CHOOSE THEIR OWN SALARY!!!!

ARE YOU LISTENING.????? 

Being in charge of a 501(c)3...  with lots of vollunteer workers, can be very lucrative.

Let the people in charge take a vow of poverty and live in communal housing, and then maybe... maybe... maybe... maybe.... maybe... maybe.,...  they can be trusted.

maybe.

Otherwise, they will end up paying themselves very well.

-Mosheh Thezion

I am not hiring anyone to do anything. I ride a skateboard for a living. I never claimed to be a business man. I have a degree in Cultural Anthropology. Its more about people than money.

BoB you are exactly right, I dig your points and I will do just what you suggest. See where it goes.

Thanks dude

I wasnt saying they had to do stuff my way or I was gonna take my ball home. I just dont want to be part of the non profit. I think its wrong. I never argued with anything Oh or OWS or Oakland did, I donated 1200 in food to San fran and Oakland. I just do not want to be part of the 501c3. 

 

My suggestion, CF...Find out when this 501c3 will be proposed at the GA and show up.  Voice your concern through the process and see what goes from there.  

 I thought the movement just encouraged everyone to take their money out of banks?

 

The movement was about encouraging people to take their money out of the banks who were part of the problem ( JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America...) and put them in credit unions and the like that actually serve the community.

What I want in the long term is a new way of thinking. I believe we should have sit ins inside major banks, and financial institutions. I believe we should assemble and march on City hall and the governors mansion. Try to shut them down if only for a little while, it would cost them revenue(which is all they care about). Hit them where it hurts.

Propose OH do just that, CF.  If you want to do organize a protest.  Come on down, propose it, get it passed by consensus and get some people to help you organize it.

But most people are to scared to spend a night in jail. The hippies were not, environmentalist are not, but we are.

You aren't paying attention, CF.  People have been arrested and gone to jail, matter of fact, people were arrested yesterday during the protest march.  

 I have tons of things I think need changing and tons of ideas on how to implement them. One day if i get enough people interested, we could meet and discuss it. Who knows? I just know for now that OH has lost its way.

 Sounds like you need to come down to the park and work with the workgroups, CF.  I wouldn't go as far as to say that OH has lost its way because it wants to file under 501c3, I might not agree with it but I wouldn't leave the movement or claim OH has lost its way because it doesn't want to pay taxes.  Especially, when those taxes go towards subsidies, wars and oppressing people in other countries so multinationals can exploit the country.

Here is what the site says:

• Land to occupy and explore longer term sustainability projects
• Land or indoor space we can use to regroup and to store equipment

I am uncertain as to whether or not any members of Occupy are actually qualified to conduct sustainable energy research or whose idea it was to put it on the list. Presently this is a group of dreamers trying to find their way and given time, hopefully they will. You probably are already aware energy research is usually conducted by universities via grants or corporations and requires significant funding. Regardless university or not, you would want someone well qualified and experienced in taking on such an endeavor. It seems you may as well hire the people you want, so they have to pay taxes. I know a young man that presently does just that after attending MIT. If these people you hire are successful from their research, what do you get, legally speaking? Who has the rights to what they find?

If you did allow Occupy to actually use the property with your maintaining ownership, and that rent was gifted to them, they would have to find a way to pay taxes on that gift according to your preferred NOT a not-for-profit.  I am not certain they have resources like that right now. Would you give them money to pay the taxes on the gift? Hopefully they will be reporting their funds soon on-line, but so far it remains an unacceptable mystery. However, I am trying to be patient. And you, a supposed businessman or woman, are not concerned.  

BTW, you are right, I don't want to be arrested, or spend a night in jail. It is a challenging enough time to find work in the USA, and that would make it more difficult to do so, especially in my circumstance. People in Ivory Towers do not consider other people's needs, they simply hire a cheap mercenary to get arrested, someone that has been arrested before. I am not even really sure why you think it is necessary to be arrested….I don't admire people for getting arrested in association with protests. But if you want to, have at it, spend a night in jail. And you can pay for your own expenses, with taxes.

I am seriously beginning to doubt your credibility, as it seems these basic things addressed above have not been thought through. Your approach is illogical.

If you really want to help, donate the use of your land to develop a commune if that is what Occupy needs, bring food and mentor them in ways that are useful at this time. If not, then best wishes in your endeavors with finding the researchers.

~k

What I want in the long term is a new way of thinking. I believe we should have sit ins inside major banks, and financial institutions. I believe we should assemble and march on City hall and the governors mansion. Try to shut them down if only for a little while, it would cost them revenue(which is all they care about). Hit them where it hurts. But most people are to scared to spend a night in jail. The hippies were not, environmentalist are not, but we are.

We would require american companies to hire domestically. No more phone centers in India or Guatemala. Its time that US companies helped Americans. Its sad that Nissans are built in TN and Toyotas in Texas. But yet fords and chevy's are made in Mexico and Canada. That revenue should be here on our soil. That would create jobs.

We would require the government to show acountability for american tax dollars and that we as citizens get to vote on things such as bank bailouts, etc...

We would work to get the education system up to par by getting rid of no child left behind and start offering teachers incentives for having students do well. Not threaten them if they dont. Like you said threats dont work. Its more about rewards for hard work.

I have tons of things I think need changing and tons of ideas on how to implement them. One day if i get enough people interested, we could meet and discuss it. Who knows? I just know for now that OH has lost its way.

I

I must say, I am really surprised you are still around filling up Occupy Houston forums, Collectedfunk.

In reference to your gripe with 501c3...Did you go down to the GA and "block" the passage of the 501c3 proposal?  Or was this proposal passed in your absence?  See, the thing is with our local occupation is...you can voice your opposition to a proposal and block it from passage.  But you probably knew all that.   

Following up what Katie said, it does sound like you are suffering from a bit of 'not getting what you want so you are taking your toys and going home' syndrome.  Personally, and this has nothing to do with you as an individual but I would vote against utilizing your 'assets' because it seems like you are using it as a power move.  Sort of like how lobbyist are working in our govt.  " I will give you this, if you do this for me..."  

In reference, to the OH deciding on whether to file under 501c3 status: You never did respond to my statements about your post about why OH would be banking.  You being somebody familiar with money coming in, you do realize that money MUST go somewhere.  Occupy Houston is taking cash donations, shameful, I know but nevertheless happening.  Now, there are plenty of choices where to put that money, under the mattress, in the backyard, in the bank, with cousin vinny...the list goes on.  But with OH, many of these choices get thrown out quite easily.  I think, many people think some sort of financial institution should be used.  With that, and I am sure you understand, when opening an account, you need to file all sorts of information for the account.  For OH to open an account, "OH" can't just walk into the bank and say, " I am Occupy Houston.  I want to open my account.  I am not one person and collectively, we don't have an official id or SS number but we want to put my money somewhere..."  See the problem here, Collectedfunk?  This is one of several problems that may arise with OH where the structure of the movement may have to deal with and can't really do that as an 'abstract'.

In reference, to paying taxes.  I am aware how you feel.  There may be others who agree with you.  Try having a civil conversation without threats and ultimatums and try to convey your perspective to others so there can be a dialog and hopefully a middle ground found.  These virtual tantrums of yours are not really helping anybody and appear childish. 

I appreciate your contribution and passion, Collectedfunk.  But I think, you are going about things wrong.  I hoping you can work within the system of the process to get your concerns heard and work it out with the group.  'Strong arming' the movement is not the way to go, in my opinion.  

Pierre

If Occupy paid taxes, what would your remaining vision of the movement look like? What would you include in your mission statement? How do you perceive them using 26 acres of land in Huntsville?

It would be nice to know where you would really like to go with all this. Because so far, what I have read is basically, "if you do what I like, I will give you things" and "I want you to pay taxes." Perhaps it is unwitting, but the money thing suggests you may always hold it out as a carrot for the organization to do as you like. Are you aware it suggests you want control and won't play unless you have control? And that what you want in the longterm is not really evident, other than not use the non-for-profit status? I can't jump on board unless I know what your goals are beyond not-for-profit taxes and they agree with my own.

~k

So below is my reply to them asking If I was still going to help the OH. I said no.

Yes that is what it means. Occupy is supposed to be a movement to change the way the country works. Its not a non profit org. The Hippies in the 60's never sought 501c3 because they believed in what they were doing. They didn't see it as some organization but as a revolution. I think the occupy movement has that potential. But as soon as you start asking for things such as 501c3 then you no longer are credible. Also I believe everyone should pay taxes. Including churches, charities, etc... Because what happens is a few things. First if occupy doesn't pay taxes then the banks and corps have valid grounds to point out that you complain about them not paying taxes, but then occupy doesn't either. Second is this. I make 300k+ every year. I pay 18% in taxes. If I was to donate to Occupy or a church I would pay less taxes. Well then the church or occupy doesn't pay taxes. So that is more money taken from our infrastructure. Then we lose our budget. What gets cut first is art programs, then education, etc... But I don't donate so I can help the country. I live well and don't mind paying, I think everyone shouldn't mind paying some taxes. I like roads and bridges, I like school programs for under privileged kids. I just believe it is the wrong move for the occupy, regardless of what wall street or Oakland is doing. Don't be a follower, be a leader. Let people know that paying taxes is a good thing. I no longer can be associated with Occupy. I am not interested in helping a no profit org. I am interested in changing things. A year from now you will either be a org like salvation army, or a lobby group for Washington, or a new political party like the green or ind. Both of which don't get taken seriously. So good luck. If you decide not to seek 501c3 but instead decide to allot funds, pay taxes, and do it like consultant firm or independent contractor, let me know. Otherwise I'm out.

Thanks

Mikey Seibert Jr,