Post edited 3:47 am – November 10, 2011 by a

I think it's a great idea that the women of the group have decided to have their own pow-wow's on a regular basis. seems like a natural move…

but, this statement from Nick under that post is where I become incredulous…

We shouldn’t expect most white-males to arrive at occupyhouston already knowing the motivations for an all women’s breakout group.  For me, it took seeing several presentations by queer and people of color caucuses to “get it.”  At occupyhouston when the idea of a feminism meeting first came up, many guys objected.  A feminism meeting with those males present might not even get started, and it made perfect sense for those who identify as female to choose to meet on their own.

 

Breakout groups inside larger groups sometimes choose to limit their participation to only women, blacks, people of color, sex-workers, rape-victims, or etc.   These types of groups form because when non white males try to explore their thoughts in an open group, they are often interrupted, shushed, mocked, dominated, criticized, or otherwise shut-down.  I do not think the response of occupyhouston should amount to “man up, deal with it on your own, and come back whenever you are ready.”

 

There is no equivalency here to an all-white breakout group, and comparisons to that effect are odious.  Oppressed groups in our society are not the same as dominant groups and we shouldn’t maintain an unequal status quo on the basis of so-called equality.  Black prejudice against whites is not the same thing as white prejudice against blacks.  The concept of black power is not an equivalent to the concept of white power.  Sex-workers do not get the same respect in our society as college students.  Critiques of patriarchy are not the same as critiques of women.  The 99% has real inequities in it, and they don’t go away by pretending we all have equal power.

 

If members of non-dominant groups often don’t feel comfortable to speak as much, or at all, in wide-open meetings, then they need other sorts of meetings to work on it.  The process of developing ideas often requires a less pressured environment for collaborative dialog.  Creating spaces where women don’t have to worry about being shut down by insensitive men can help build up the strength needed to dialog later with those men on a better footing.  Sometimes the breakout groups start off as exclusive, and then can come to re-enter dialog with the larger group on their own terms.

 

There are exclusive associations taking place all the time at occupyhouston. There is no rule against such things.  When David Rovics played a concert there, it wasn’t open for anyone to go up and play any instrument with him.  A musician choosing who is in his band is no more problematic than a group of women deciding they want to meet alone.

 

White males often assume that their presence does nothing to stop women and people of color from feeling comfortable talking about their concerns and their histories. This fact alone explains why they are sometimes asked to not attend.  I have been part of hundreds of types of groups and movements in my life and there has never been one in which white males didn’t speak for more than their even share of time.  Those who would seek to deny women a chance to meet without them are obstructing the creation of a space where those who are used to speaking less get to speak more.

 

There are many who seem to acknowledge that we live in a white patriarchy where women may well not get their full thoughts out in the presence of men, but don’t seem to be open to creative solutions to bring balance.  It should be obvious that women will not say all kinds of things about feminism if there are guys present, especially if they are insensitive guys.  We have a long way to go, and we will never get there if women’s right to free association isn’t respected.

One prejudice doesn't equal another prejudice? it's ok for one group to hate another as long as they have sound reasoning but wrong for other groups? huh? don't you people understand that this kind of mentality does not erase division but only breeds more of it? so I guess that means I could say that Israel has a right to do what they do to Palestine because genocide has been comitted against the Jews? You people realize that's exactly the kind of thinking Nick's statement propagates?

this kind of ultra PC equivocation bullshit is one of the reasons I haven't been back in almost a month.

seems like there was more energy put in to a facebook argument than there is for outreach, education or useful direct action at OH.

Everyone has the Right to Occupy Space, Safely

Posted 2 days ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 4:07 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt

For as long as public space has existed, women and LGBTQ people have been trying to “occupy” it safely — with distressingly little success.  Harassing comments, groping, flashing and assault are a daily, global reality for women and LGBTQ individuals. Too often, these injustices are met with little or no response, regarded simply as “the price you pay” for being female, trans, or gay in public. As supporters of the Occupy movement, we believe that a world where everyone has the right to occupy public space safely is not only possible – it is essential to building a strong and lasting movement.

It’s no secret that the Wall Street 1% who wrecked our economy are disproportionately straight and male, despite countless studies showing the less organizations look like the 99%, the less effective they are. As we quicken the pace of social change, we must be careful not to replicate Wall Street’s mistakes. The message is clear: equality means impact.

But for women and LGBTQ people to participate equally in the Occupy movement, we must be safe in occupied spaces. We know that harassment and assault happens everywhere — and that the Occupy movement is no more immune to it than our nation’s parks and parking lots —  but we also know that a movement where women and LGBTQ individuals are not safe is not a movement that serves the interests of the 99%.

In solidarity with those who are already working on the ground to make safer spaces, we call on all General Assemblies of the Occupy movement to adopt anti-harassment and anti-assault as core principles of solidarity. To realize these principles within the movement, we call on General Assemblies in every city to empower women and LGBTQ occupiers with the time, space, and resources necessary to ensure that every occupied space is a safe space.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/…..ce-safely/

I am struggling with this.  I would not like it is if there was a men's only meeting, or gay, white, black, short, etc.  I understand some folks may not feel comfortable speaking around others for whatever the reason but I think segregating meetings may not be the right idea.  We could have meetings focused on women's issues that would be open to all.  If there is a person who feels uncomfortable to speak to the group, maybe that person could write down their comment or question and have it read to the group.  This is just a suggestion.  My guess is, if there is an open-to-all women's meeting, only women will attend.   Additionally, if a man wanted to attend, I would hope it would be in the interest of learning or contributing.